“Getting Better” with Jason Vargo

In this episode, I talk with Jason Vargo, (a guy who has the world’s greatest first name AND a daughter with the same name as my oldest daughter!) about his project/podcast/business/whoknowswhatformitwilltake focused on conversations about “getting better” (as in bettering oneself).

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Jason V: Well, my name is Jason Vargo and I am the person who does the best they can in any way they can with whatever they’re doing. And I’m looking to formulate my energies and actions in such a way that I can just focus basically on doing just that to whatever positive end it may have.

Jason L: So why don’t we catch the people up? The email that you sent me. We’ll start there. You tell me what are we doing here today?

Jason V: Well, it’s kind of funny. There’s a bit of a backstory actually, because for you, this is like probably just another conversation that we’re having, but for me, as I … how to say it. We’ve had a bit of a one sided relationship for quite some time now because I’ve been reading your emails for I think it’s been at least two years now. And obviously we’ve known each other for some years just being in the same town and all of that. But not being immediately in each other’s sphere, kind of in a second tier sort of thing. And I had an idea, I have lots of ideas and sometimes they just don’t let me go. And I had an idea about, I mean it’s probably coming up on a year ago now and the idea was just two words. It was getting better. That’s the idea. And the idea just kind of popped up to me and I sat with it, which is kind of the way that my ideas typically happen. I have a flash of an idea that makes sense, but I don’t really understand details and so I just let it sit.

Jason V: And what I realized over time as I did let it sit, that it was related to what I’ve always done, which is try to make situations that I’m a part of better in some way. And I’ve always been interested in what people do to get better and bettering oneself. I’ve always been very self reflective and really drawn to people and ideas that are for the purposes of growth and expansion and getting better. And so over time, I realized that this was something that I wanted to actualize in some way. And over time I realized having conversations about it, which is something that I tend to do anyway with the people that I talk with would be a great way to do it. And so of course, I’m thinking, thinking, thinking about it, all the time thinking about it. And again, it was one of these ideas that wouldn’t let me go. And over time I’ve been building a list of people that, wow, wouldn’t it be great, mind you, I’m not talking to them yet.

Jason V: I’ve been building a list of people that would be great, that I believe it would be great to talk to for this purpose, to explore the idea of getting better. And so it’s funny because you’ve been on my list. And you’ve been on my list for at least probably eight or nine months. And every time I read one of your daily journals, I’m like, yeah. Because I realize, I recognize in what you’re doing that’s a fundamental premise of what you’re doing too. You’re working on reflecting and getting better and obviously you’re focused on business. But I see many, many touches of deeper things in what you do. And you just, you’ve been on my list. So fast forward, however long, up until what I guess it was probably three weeks ago, I’m at the point now where I had made the commitment to myself that I would be prepared to begin this project that’s continually gotten more and more clarity.

Jason V: You know, I’d gotten to this place where I’d committed to myself that I would be prepared to hit the ground and begin having these conversations at the turn of the new year, kind of classic starting point. And so with that said, it was maybe within 24 hours. I think it was the next email of yours that I saw that was, oh hey, by the way, I’m opening up my podcast again and I’m inviting anyone who’s reading this to reach out about having a conversation. And I was like-

Jason L: That’s how Sedona works, isn’t it?

Jason V: I was like, “You got to be kidding me.” So instead of doing something that I think we all do it some point. Like kind of put it off or think about it too much. I just decided I was going to email you right back. Right then and there. I read it. I got down to the thing and I was like, “This is an option.” Like I’m literally being presented with an option now that I’ve said go, are you going to go? And so I was like, “Oh God, okay. Okay. I guess I got to respond here.” So I did and then I wrote the email to you, which is kind of funny because I started writing it and then I realized halfway through, I mean I’m writing in a little submission form about six lines tall and I think I wrote you an email that was probably 80 lines or something like that. But what I realized when I was writing it is that I began writing in the style of your emails, is what I felt like I was responding in the way that I’ve read you communicating.

Jason V: So I was like, “Wow, this is kind of interesting.” I just kept going, kept going and then instead of rereading it and questioning it, I just hit submit and then I realized I didn’t really proofread that. I’m pretty sure I know what I said, but it was really just an inspired moment that I just was having fun and answering the call.

Jason L: So does this getting better project, does it have a livelihood component attached to it? Is it too early in the experiment to even know? What are you thinking about that?

Jason V: With my intentions relating to it, I haven’t felt like I could add a livelihood element to it yet. In fact, one of the things I’ve been working really hard with since I’ve had the idea is not overly defining it. Instead of going down the track of oh, it’s going to be this, you know it’s going to be this. The work I’ve done so far has been, I’m going to let this be and show up for it.

Jason L: Yeah. So tell me some scenarios … I mean, I kind of know what you’ve been doing often, but like you said, we’re not in the same circle. So not intimately where … so give me a couple of examples of the situations that you’ve been in over the years where you just play your natural role, which is trying to make things better.

Jason V: So one of the things I’ve done a lot of since I’ve been in Sedona, which is about 16 years now, is kind of center point business management. I’ve been oftentimes the person who is responsible for a large piece of a business of some sort or another, and basically play my role in the middle of communicating with everyone, finding out what people need in order to do what I’m hoping they do and all of these things. So it’s really, it’s kind of a challenge for me to describe that because it is kind of my natural process. So thinking through it now, I realized that I just, in every situation I’m in, make an effort to relate to the person that I’m speaking with or interacting with. Finding out what they need and what’s going to make the situation that we’re working together on easier.

Jason V: I’ve also done a lot of event work, festivals and day long events. And that’s another scenario where my entire role is practically just interacting with people and figuring out how to put these pieces together so the next thing can happen. So that’s on the surface. But then underneath, I’ve also always been really, really interested. I’m a big time reader. I read as much as I possibly can and I am interested in any and all things related to progress from historical biographies of amazing people, to books on revolutionary science, to books on metaphysical self-help, things like that. I just want to take it all. I’ve done a lot of that. And so in my own self, I had this undercurrent of kind of pushing the evolution along, whether it’s on a personal, individual evolution of how can we make this situation at hand better, all the way to what are we doing to better our situation as a human race? So that’s my perspective. I’m not sure how clearly that answered your question, but-

Jason L: No, that’s good. So when you’re in these situations, I’ve known you long enough to know that you don’t make things better by being tough on people. You have a different approach and a different style. Can you put into words what you think that is?

Jason V: I think it’s related to what I was talking about before in that I always meet a situation or I do my best to read the situation in a way that allows for the solution to arise. I don’t necessarily, this is kind of a double edged internal feeling, but I don’t necessarily feel like I know most of the time the best way to do a thing. But what I also know is that I recognize the best way to do a thing or at least a great way to do a thing. And so I can come up with my own ideas and if I’m recognizing in the situation that there isn’t a solution at hand, then I can deliver, well here’s what I think we should do, and then we can talk about it. And if that’s what we both decide we should do moving forward, then we can do that.

Jason V: And there’s also people show up ready to do things. I’m thinking like volunteers at a festival or even somebody showing up on your work crew that you’re responsible for. People show up and they know the job at hand. So it’s really more of a matter instead of telling them what to do and how to do it, you tell them what there is to be done and if they’re willing to do it, you just let them do it. [crosstalk 00:11:41]. Go ahead.

Jason L: I was going to say that I think the universe has planted jokes in people like you and in people like me. I spend days saying to people, “Hey, go this way or go that way.” And I wake up every day with no clue what direction to go. And it’s the big universal joke that a lot of people I talk to encounter. They do things, they know what should be done. Even when they turn that on themselves it’s … I mean it’s, you just have to laugh because what else are you going to do other than jump off a cliff? It’s like, but it’s amazing that it just flows so naturally through you. The ability to see what maybe others don’t see it in quite the same way. So, I mean I think the whole idea of getting better is powerful because, and not projecting like what am I going to do with this, because really it is a creator of opportunity and connection.

Jason L: So it’s almost like you couldn’t envision as good a things as this can create and will create. And to project your ideas on what it should create is maybe as you say, kind of putting a limit on it that isn’t actually productive rather than you just sit there and do your thing and amazing things show up.

Jason V: I think that’s pretty well put. That’s exactly what I’m trying to hold onto. And one of the challenges that I feel internally and why it’s such a kind of a big step to have, like I said, received your email and chosen to respond immediately. Because I can … I feel like there’s a fine line between sitting and waiting and that whole non-action thing and letting yeah, letting this amazing thing happen. There’s a catalyst that’s required in this particular instance. It would be something to the effect of, great, I’ve got people on my list now I have to call them, or email them and set up a time for us to talk. And that’s where I’m paying attention now because as it is … you know, it was kind of serendipitous because if I can go back to the original story of responding to your email, this is part two, which is, I sent the email and then I didn’t hear back for like a week which-

Jason L: More universal joking.

Jason V: Exactly. And so, but the cool part about this was my first response was, “Oh man, he’s probably just going to think I’m nuts.”

Jason L: I didn’t think you were nuts, for the record.

Jason V: Okay, well that’s fair enough. That’s fair enough. But that was my first thought. My almost immediate second thought was, that’s okay. And what I realized was very, very quickly, and I was happy about this. But very quickly after I had those thoughts and feelings, I realized that if I didn’t hear back from you, that when I was ready, I would reach out again. Because I knew that I would like to talk with you and I knew that I would like to have this conversation. And so I was like, all right, maybe another way. And then a week later I got the email. And I was just checking my email kind of at a weird time and I saw and I was like, “Oh cool. Another one. Oh wait a minute. That’s not another daily journal. This is [crosstalk 00:15:27] the response. This is the one. Okay.” So then I read it and then I had another opportunity at that time to stop and think about it or just respond. And again, I just responded. So thanks for the opportunities, both of those.

Jason L: You’re welcome. Thank you. How have you made your best decisions in your life would you say? Have they been, I’m going to think this through and then go do it? Or have they been, I know what’s right for me now or have they been a mixture?

Jason V: Interestingly, it’s been both. What I’ve realized about myself is that when I’m ready to do a thing, there’s no stopping. There’s no stopping me. Like I’ve seen that in a hundred different ways.

Jason L: because you pull off some, again, without being in the same circles, I think you pull off some amazing feats and mysterious sleights of hand that make the impossible happen.

Jason V: It’s, yeah, at times that has been the case. Yeah. Yeah. Just just from a standpoint of, yeah, pulling off a thing, whether it’s a show or a festival or a performance or even getting a certain group of people to all band together somehow and otherwise they probably wouldn’t have even talked to each other under other circumstances. But the other facet of being able to do that is if I’m not ready, it’s not time. And that’s one thing that I’ve learned about myself that I still, I don’t want to say I struggle with it, but it’s something I’m constantly aware of. Because again, it brings me back to that idea of the fine line between waiting for the right time because it’s an understanding thing.

Jason V: It’s a feeling thing for me and just knowing the way forward, not necessarily from a detail standpoint but from an okay, it’s time to do this standpoint, like it’s go time. I really, I felt this sigh of relief when I saw your face and heard your voice because the thought that occurred to me was like, oh now we can just do it. I don’t have to think about it anymore. It’s time. It’s time to just have this conversation. And so that’s the mix. It’s a mix, you know.

Jason L: I don’t think that the whole idea of living your life based on your internal rhythm, I mean it doesn’t win awards like in our current situation. I mean especially anything that gets too close to the business line, if that’s even a line. You could argue all day about whether or not that actually exists. But I think the guts to be able to do that, like that’s the only thing you can depend on. You can depend on the vibration that’s being emitted from you like over the long term. And it says go and it says stop and a lot of people aren’t brave enough to listen to it or can’t even hear it yet.

Jason V: And also, I agree with that fully. And I would add that a lot of people don’t realize that that voice is happening. There’s this discord that I think can occur. I know I’ve had the experience with it when I … again, it’s how I got to this place of understanding that when it’s not time for a thing, it’s not time yet. Because when I try to force something, if I think I’ve got the right idea or I think I’ve got the best idea, but I know deep down that I’m not quite ready, but I’m going to do this anyway because it’s what so-and-so wants or it’s what would be commonly accepted or it would be the easy thing. That’s actually when the challenges start because this pressure rises, now I’ve got to figure out the next thing. I just claimed responsibility for knowing this.

Jason V: Now I got to know this and then I got to know that and I got to know that and all these next steps and that’s a lot of pressure, honestly, when at the end of the day I don’t actually know what I’m doing. That’s one of my favorite things to read in your daily journals is when you kind of get on that point of, sometimes I talk to a client and they ask me what we’re going to talk about and I tell them I have no idea. I’m like every time I read something like that, I’m like, “Yes.” That’s one of my favorite parts of what you bring to the table kind of consistently is that we don’t really know.

Jason V: That’s part of what’s exciting about the concept I think of getting better because it doesn’t denote that there’s an end point. Just that if we look at where we’re at now, how it is and what it is with truth and honesty, then we can start to talk about getting better. What’s better than this? Do I need it to be better? Is it good enough? Or we can start asking those questions once we actually admit that we don’t know what’s coming next.

Jason L: So based what you’re thinking about it so far, who do you feel like it would be for, this discussion?

Jason V: Well, you’re a great example because you’re someone that I’ve witnessed their perspective enough to know that I could have a viable conversation about the concept. Kind of among what I would consider to be kind of like a higher or deeper level, more of like fundamental aspects of what getting better in the big picture looks like. But I have another person lined up where we’re actually working right now to dial in the time to talk. But another person on my list is actually a Guinness book of world records holder for longest hula hooping. These guys hula hooped longer than anybody else, at least on record. And it was like how cool is that for one that I know this guy, but also what … so he’s the best at something. What does it mean for someone who’s the best at something to get better?

Jason V: What does getting better mean to that person? Also I have a lot of … everyone has a lot of experience with getting better from a learning standpoint or a healing standpoint. Everybody’s had trials and tribulations. There’s every single person I can imagine in any scenario can relate to what it would be to either get better or having gotten better. So this concept of getting better, so to answer your question simply, I feel like I could have this conversation with anyone in some capacity or another. And part of what’s exciting to me is finding out what that would mean to any particular person. What’s their story? What’s the first thing that pops into your mind when we talk about that concept? It’s not even … it’s also kind of nebulous because, is it a question? Is it an idea? Is it … I don’t really know, but these are the kinds of things that I’m trying not to put too fine a point on. But again, there’s a lot. There’s a lot of definition-

Jason L: Yeah. Well, same question then for the people that are going to listen. Who are these conversations for in terms of the listeners? Who’s right to listen to it?

Jason V: I would like to think that in some way, some if not any or all of the conversations would be valuable to just about anyone as long as they’re open to the idea of getting better in some way. I feel like in the same way that I can imagine anyone relating to the idea, I can imagine … I mean what’s the most popular form of entertainment? It’s just, it’s people, John, John, John, just talking about whatever. And a lot of that stuff, podcasts and radio and even video casting, things like that. I feel like we’re just so interested as human creatures in what other people have to say and what they’re thinking and how we can relate. And I feel like a lot of what’s going on in culture right now is very surface-y. It’s not digging terribly deep. And it’s out there. It’s out there and it’s even in parts of the stuff that isn’t going very deep.

Jason V: But I think there’s a lot of people that are feeling a pull for something more, a little more satisfying that I think there’s a lot of people out there looking for something that they don’t actually know what it is because frankly we have to get better as humans. We have to get better as a culture and we have to be getting better as communicators and self reflectors in order to offer what’s going to satisfy this kind of deep rooted urge that a lot of us are feeling. So in the big kind of in the biggest sense, I would love to be a part of helping to provide that.

Jason L: Yeah. I think, I mean I always think of … I spend my days thinking about business, so it’s not like I’m trying to shove you in a box, but it’s just how I think. So when I talk about something, when you’re talking about this, I’m always thinking like, who’s being served by this? Right? Who is this going to serve? And I mean, for in my world, I would describe what you’re about to do as a media platform, right? You’re creating your thing whether it’s going to last forever or two weeks or a month, it doesn’t matter. It’s this thing that you’re going to publish that has a reason for being and people who are going to benefit from it. And to begin to think about all the ways that they will be served, yes, I agree with you. You will point them to getting better. But on the other hand, the other thing I think about is where are they at now? Most people don’t think they’re very good.

Jason L: The internal dialogue is that no matter how high achieving you are, there’s still some of that. And so to me, one of the huge benefits of what you’re going to do is that you’re going to remind me that I’m not that bad and it’s going to make me feel better in the instant without me having have done anything. I can’t go do stuff because you’re going to help me with that too and give me a bigger vision. But there seems to be like an immediate benefit to me in that you are showing me other humanity and reminding me that where I’m at is okay. Which not that you’re ever going to come out and say that, but I think it builds a bond that’s pretty strong among humans and you’re a natural connector. So just a way to think about it, to really give it … I mean, I like stuff with deep levels of meaning, you know what I mean? And these nebulous things can still offer very specific meaning. Sometimes it’s hard to see.

Jason V: Well, what you stated, if I were to achieve that, I really couldn’t imagine a higher honor to be someone who is fortifying a sense of wellness on a fundamental level of how people feel. I mean that’s why I thrive in the center. I’ve said it so often that I thrive best in the center of the storm, kind of in the eye of the storm. When I can sit in the middle and look all around me and start seeing what could happen where to make the situation better, that’s where I thrive in that moment of what do we need right now? What do we need to make better right now? How can you-

Jason L: Were you that way when you were a kid? Can you find instances of that?

Jason V: You know, I don’t remember a specific instance, but it’s interesting. My daughter just turned 13 a couple of days ago and the nature of our conversation has of course evolved over time. But one of the … she had a birthday party and she was talking about the different people that attended her birthday party. And it brought the conversation along to me reflecting on how I was around her age in school. And one of the things that I shared with her was that I found that I had … there’s all the different cliques in middle school. There’s classic, the jocks and the nerds and the [inaudible 00:28:58] and the drama people and this, all the different people. And a lot of times the people that belong to one group don’t really hang out with the people in the other groups. And I always was welcome in all of those groups. I didn’t necessarily identify with … I identified with all of them in some way, but there was never any one particular way that I identified with just one of them. And so-

Jason L: And you can be yourself in all of them? The same, you could be the same you?

Jason V: I wondered that for a long time. And I think looking back that yes, and I think a lot of that time was me figuring out who I was or how to feel comfortable in being me. Because for a long time I wondered if it was a kind of like a chameleon trick. Is that am I able to change myself so I fit in with this group and then I go hang out with that group and have I changed myself? And I actually didn’t know that for a very long time. But when I look back now, I think it was more along the lines of being able to relate in different ways to people. I’ve always been more accepting of other people than I have of myself. Where none of us are completely devoid of that voice that you talked about. And it was always kind of an escape for me. Not an escape, but a relief for me to fortify others because in some small way that energy works to make you feel better.

Jason L: Yeah, definitely.

Jason V: And it took me a long time to find words for that. But I think that’s how I was working. I consider myself lucky in that way. I had a really positive upbringing. My parents and my family are wonderful people and I’m very lucky in that regard.

Jason L: Yeah. That’s awesome. How would the people around you that you’ve worked with over the years, how would they describe what you do? How would they describe this thing that we’re talking about, this natural way you are, that you call making things better or connecting or whatever. What words would they use?

Jason V: I have heard the words leader. I do tend to find myself in kind of like that, again with business or in a festival scenario or an event scenario, a kind of a management role. And I don’t necessarily see it as a leader role, but I think it tends to be perceived that way because clarity and direction comes out of it. And we are led by, regardless of whether it’s right or wrong, if our leader is saying this is what it is, so there’s the clarity and then this is the way we’re going to do it, there’s the direction. If we get clarity and direction from some source, that’s our leader for better or worse. So I’ve heard that, but I don’t know. I don’t know how easy it is to reflect in that way. That’s really interesting. That’s not a place I often go. You kind of spun me around a little bit, which is wonderful. I’ll take that anytime and I’m grateful for it. But at the same time, I don’t know exactly how to answer that.

Jason L: So you’ve been thinking about this for about a year, did I get that right?

Jason V: Yeah.

Jason L: So what are the-

Jason V: I would almost say it’s been thinking me, you know?

Jason L: It’s been thinking you for a year?

Jason V: Yeah. Yeah.

Jason L: Are there still areas where you’re like, “I’m not sure about this or that.” Or you tell me, it sounds like you’re getting closer to jumping off a cliff, but it might not be a cliff. It might just be a little step down that you can’t see or whatever. But what are the things between you and actually out there that either are telling you not the right time yet or creating resistance or anything or that you just haven’t thought through?

Jason V: I would say to me that means, I kind of hear you asking like what are the sticking points currently that-

Jason L: If there are any. I mean-

Jason V: I feel like the only potential sticking point right now would be me not making the calls or the contacts that I know need to happen for these conversations to occur. And so, and that’s something that’s pretty, pretty close to the surface there for me. I’m not sure the best way to put it, but definitely a challenging point, something I’m very aware that I need to be working on. And with that said, I’m not positive that that’s the everything of moving forward. I realized just a couple of days ago, because of course this conversation was coming up. So it’s like the more and more I was thinking about it in terms of what I know of you and what you’re offering and what this conversation may turn to. And I did start thinking about the platform. I did start thinking about what would it feel like to commit daily to just offering something of value?

Jason V: And actually you put an even finer point on the idea when you talked about, wow, just something that’s going to make me feel a little better about being the human I am today. I mean that actually clarified something that I had been chewing on for a couple of days. But that is equally exciting and terrifying to commit to offering that. And I’m not exactly sure, I mean this is a whole rabbit hole, but I think it speaks to deeper things in our culture, but also individually and then for me, what’s there to be afraid of there? What really is there to be worried about that I would reach out with the intention of serving and helping and benefiting someone else’s life or many other people’s lives, maybe everyone’s life that is affected by what I offer.

Jason V: How could that possibly be scary? How could that be anything but oh my God, yes, that’s the right thing to do. And it’s interesting because you talk about this too, but there’s programming that exists that keeps us from just doing that. I think people are inherently good and I think it’s really hard for us to express that sometimes.

Jason L: I studied with this Celtic Shaman for years, so she was like energetic shaman person, but kind of in the Celtic pantheon of kings and whatever. Right. And so she always went on and on about how people were so scared of their power. And I was like, “I just can’t quite wrap my head around. It doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.” And then I tried for … I mean I was raised very religious, so tons of guilt and shame about anything. Like why not more guilt? Have another guilt. And the only way that I found .. I mean, so I tried to think through the scared of your power thing, doesn’t make a lot of sense to me why that would be like kind of what you just said. It’s not that scary.

Jason L: And the only way that I found to make all of that irrelevant was I stopped trying to solve it, right? Because I was just running around and just publicly committed to serving people, some specific people. And for me that made everything irrelevant. Everything else irrelevant. And it was like, I’m just saying I’m going to do my best to make you better today than you were yesterday, that’s it. And it all melted away. I mean, and you’re talking to the most undisciplined person ever. I mean, I went to music school. My parents are … I was paying tons of money. “Practice four hours a day,” they said. Like once I found my wife or who I knew was going to be my wife, I just wasted all my time with her.

Jason L: I mean, she was practicing and I was sitting there bugging her like four hours a day was not going to happen. But this is different, but serving someone is a different feeling to me. And so the result is the same. We all get better, but I wouldn’t even call it mental framing. It’s like something in the heart. The energetic vibe that I wrapped that in is totally different. And it’s the only kind of eternal energy source for my activities that I’ve found.

Jason V: Yeah. I think there’s something to that commitment. What was it, if you don’t mind, if I turn the, I kind of turn the tables on you and just ask, what was that? You use a classic common phrase these days. What was the tipping point for you? When you made that choice, what did that … Was there a specific transition? Was it just like a snap? Okay. All right. Here’s what I’m doing now. Or was it kind of this gradual understanding of, oh, here’s what I’m doing now. I’m just curious because you pinpointed it. It’s making that commitment and there are certain things in my life that when I’ve made the commitment to it, no problem. It’s like you can’t even question, am I going to do this? Of course I’m going to do this. I made the commitment to do it and you just do it. Parenting, there’s no question there. There’s literally not even-

Jason L: But see, that’s coming out of your heart. Like parenting doesn’t require willpower. You making the calls the way you were talking about it, that’s like a willpower level of talking. So to me, finding the door to the other level just changes how we view that. So for me, I mean I was being a consultant and I had made some dumb business choices and was working solely with a single client who made me promise only to do that. I had burned all my other bridges and was doing really well, got used to a very nice lifestyle. And then a couple of weeks before Christmas I was like, bye bye we don’t need you anymore.

Jason L: So when you said that you get really calm in like kind of States of chaos, it reminded me of human design. I don’t know if you’ve ever gotten into it at all. But my human design chart, when shit goes down, the whole world becomes clear to me. And I mean you were describing me right there, what you said. You can see, you know what to do. Everybody is flipping out all around and like you’re just going to be, I’m going this way. And so all I could do when all of that money disappeared was I have to do what I control and I can write. And so number one, self therapy sessions were me getting all of that out. So it transformed from anger to service over two years. So we all come from weird, weird directions. But I mean, it found me because people say, “What do you do for a living?””Well, I mean, I write an email every day and then I see what happens.” Like that’s not a good at cocktail parties. That doesn’t fly.

Jason V: Well people don’t know what to do with that. But if you were really to dig into what you’re offering and what I’ve seen practically every day for the past couple of years, there’s something in there to chew on and gain from in some way every day. I mean, you are actually doing exactly what you say you’re setting out to do daily.

Jason L: It’s just a demonstration of who I am in service of some other people. That’s it. And I think we’d change the world if more people give up all the voices in their head that would say, “You can’t make it doing that,” and just try it and see what happens. Even in little bites. Because that’s like letting your magic into the world in a way that no one else will, can. And so that will create something else that hasn’t been done before.

Jason V: And I think novelty, like that novelty you speak of in every individual, being able to give only what they can, like you said, is I think it’s paramount to getting better in the biggest sense. Because if we’re not answering, find a way to not sound ridiculous saying this. If we’re not answering the call of our hearts, you know-

Jason L: See the fact that you even have to qualify that, tells us how much there is that’s wrong with our world at the moment.

Jason V: There you have it.

Jason L: Because that’s just truth.

Jason V: So part of what I’ve realized, it is just the truth. And part of what I realized is this process is extremely self-serving at the same time, because one of my personal goals is to be getting better in whatever way I possibly can from here on out. And if I explore that, that’s part of what this is. That’s part of what this is, is it’s kind of like the sprout starting to break through the dirt. And then when that little green shoot pops up, it’s actually me in my process of getting better which is kind of a scary thing too. Because, oh dear, now we’re exposed. Right. Is that part of what we’re afraid of for some strange reason that-

Jason L: It could be. Although on the other side of that exact door is about the only freedom that’s available.

Jason V: Right. So that’s what it’s actually looking like. That’s what it’s looking like in the same way that I said it was always kind of a relief for me to offer some sort of, how would you describe it? Like emotional sustenance just to someone else, to be able to recognize in them what I may or may not have been able to recognize in myself at that moment. But to fortify them in some way offered me an opportunity to feel better in some way. And so maybe that’s what this is. One of the exciting things is that I knew this conversation would be exploring a little further what this is outside of my own head and even outside of my own heart at this point because I felt through it and I’ve thought enough about it and I’ve done my best to let it think me, and not overthink it with my busy brain.

Jason V: But this is an incredibly helpful thing and I’m realizing that’s part of what this is. Part of what these conversations are is the ongoing process of learning what it is to be getting better, to be actually in the process of getting better. That’s what it is. And it’s an exploration of a process that we can all relate to in some way or another.

Jason L: When I started writing, if I went back and showed you like the beginning stuff, it was like I was on the outer edge of the onion, not even through the peel. Like, I mean I knew I was going to do this, but what it has transformed into being, you’re right. It’s totally self-serving because there is no one that benefits more from me doing that every day than me. Right. But it’s kind of a Jerry rigged way to reverse engineer being totally selfish and helping a ton of people in the process. And like that’s kind of cool. It makes you think, where else can our society function that way where enlightened self interest can lift everyone up? And so it’s a different way of thinking about life. And so the process has been invaluable as I’m sure yours will be. It just opens doors you didn’t even know there was a building there. Yeah. Just from one decision, one decision.

Jason V: Well the decision is the commitment to getting better and whatever it means to explore that. That’s what’s happening. I think that was kind of how I ended that email to you. Something to the effect of this is what’s happening. Do you want to talk more? So that’s where I’m at. I’m committed to exploring this thing. That’s what I told you in the email, was that I was committed to exploring this thing and I think you’d be a great person to discuss it with, which has proven to be absolutely correct.

Jason L: Yeah. No, I’m glad we can do it. I mean, life is too short not to be who you’re supposed to be. And if you can lift people up, it’s just … I mean, I worked in a church, played pipe organ, so I was used to seeing what the power of deep vibration through music, through whatever they were there for, how that could change somebody. And that’s like a great honor to witness, not only to have someone who’s trusting enough of you to show that, but like they remember that. And so stuff like this that you’re talking about, to be that for someone is amazing. And that’s what melts the resistance. That’s what for me shifted just everything. Because it’s not about you. Very quickly it becomes not about you in a weird way.

Jason V: Well, I’m excited to experience that. Can I put you, as I begin sharing with any of the thoughts that I have, can I put you on my list?

Jason L: Yeah, sure. And I’ll ask you a question. There might be a few of friends listening to this. So if you need any people who want to raise their hand to talk about this topic, you can either let me know by putting your contact information somewhere or giving it to me or if you don’t want to, that’s totally fine too. So, and maybe some people will find their way to you.

Jason V: That’s awesome. In fact, one of the … as far as details that have arisen that I’ve allowed to let it be defined, I imagined one of the greatest ways to find more people to talk to would be to ask the person that I’m talking to, “Do you have any recommendations for who I might talk with next?” And it wouldn’t necessarily have to be on, we’re not necessarily sharing other people’s names or things like that without their awareness or permission. But I thought the people that I ended up talking with would be a great source of that next level of outreach. So I would just offer that to you. If there’s anyone that you feel like it would be worth having a conversation with on this level, I’m very much open to receiving that. Yeah.

Jason L: Well, I know how to reach you, so I’ll let you know.

Jason V: You sure do. Yup. Maybe next time we do this, we can do it in person.

Jason L: Yeah, that’d be awesome. Well, good. Thanks so much.

Jason V: Thank you so much.

Jason L: Awesome.

Jason V: Do the world favor and keep doing what you’re doing.

Jason L: I plan on it. You too.

Jason V: Awesome. I will do my very best.